Latest post Wed, Jul 2 2008 12:11 PM by DKGen. 7 replies.
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  • Mon, Jun 30 2008 1:30 PM

    • DKGen
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    SDI - 25p capture & editing

    - cut and pasted from xpress pro forum as I had no replies there but have yet to upgrade to MC. -

    Hi there,

    I have a project filmed on DigiBeta (Progressive - 25p - I believe).

    Am encountering a few problems on initial capture and thought this would be a good time to ask a few questions before I get too into the project.

    1 - I have a J-30SDI player.  I have used the J3 template in the deck config as previous posts on the forum have suggested.  I get picture and audio in Avid but when I go to capture it reads no deck.  Any advice?  I'm sure it's a few clicks but have changed so many settings recently and been away from avid for a while I'm a bit fuzzed out with it all!

    2 - I want to maintain the best possible quality I can.  Can anyone give me advice on capturing 1:1.  I did this many years ago on an HD project but have not done for a long time and recently I've been quite concerned at how the footage looks ok on our broadcast monitor out of Avid but then looks really quite bad when made to DVD via Sorenson or After Effects (which has some pretty stellar settings for DVD).

    3 - Can anyone point me in the right dircetion for some reading abuot resolutions wthin Avid.  (Avid - please note - 10,000 pound spent on a system and no actual proper old skool PHYSICAL Avid manual/BOOK is not so cool.  I used to spend hours reading the manual while digitizing, travelling etc.  Now I have to stop working just to refer to the manual) - Yes... anyone suggest somewhere I can read up on the various Avid resolutions would be great.  If I type 1:1 resolution in the help I don't get much at all.

    4 - Finally, This was shot on 25p Digi.  I am capturing via Mojo SDI.  If anyone can give me advice on maintaining quality would be great.  I generally use 25i when in Avid... shall Istill use this?  It's just an everyday SD Digibeta project but I really do want to keep the best quality possible as there is lots of smoke in shots which equals fine gradients and I don't want them looking shoddy on DVD>  There is no reason why it should be degraded in my opinion so if I can nail it before I start capturing would be fab!

    Thanks in advance!

    HP XW8400 Workstation Dual 2.66GHz Xeon 3.00 GB RAM Quadro FX 1500 256 MB Avid XPPro v5.7.2 After Effects CS3 3ds Max 9 XP SP2 [view my complete system specs]
    HP XW8400 Workstation Dual 2.66GHz Xeon 3.00 GB RAM Quadro FX 1500 256 MB Avid XPPro v5.7.2 Mojo SDi XP SP2 G-tech Raid 1 TB Max 9 AE CS3 HVR M15E HPLP2465 JVC TM-H1750C CRT Monitor Samsung 40" LCD
  • Mon, Jun 30 2008 1:43 PM In reply to

    • Moses.M
    • Top 200 Contributor
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    Re: SDI - 25p capture & editing

    Hello  DKGen,

    as far as I know, there's no 25p mode in Digital Betacam. You can shoot using the frame and not the field mode - but this has no influence on the way, the signal is recorded on tape. This is still good oldschool NTSC or PAL standard definition stuff - having fields. So capturing using the SDI input and using the "1:1" or "1:1 10bit" resolution should give you the maximum quality, as you record your signal with at least 270MBit/sec (DigiBeta uses 135...).

    I don't know your player - but what kind of sync do you use? Do you have a blackburst/sync generator which feeds the Avid & the player? Then watch out that there is a little green dot on the right side of the capture-window. If it's greyed out or dark (not sitting in front of my MC), you have no sync and therefore troubles with digitizing. You may take a screenshot and post it for a littel bit more of help...

    Regards Moses

     

    HP xw8400 - 6GB RAM | W7 64 bit | MC 5.5.2 | Adrenaline with DNxcel Sony Vaio SB1Z1 - 6GB Ram | W7 64 bit | Blackmagic Design Ultra Studio SDI [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 30 2008 1:48 PM In reply to

    Re: SDI - 25p capture & editing

    1. Make sure the deck is properly hooked up to the system. Then, in Deck Configuration, choose the right port, and have it scan for the deck. That should get you control communications with the deck for capture.


    2. 1:1 is the best available resolution, except that in MXF, there's also 1:1 10bit, the 10-bit version. This is mostly important if you will be color grading afterwards. However, I'm not sure Mojo does 10bit. Also, your system specs mention AXP rather than MC, and I think 10bit 1:1 is limited to MC. and not available in AXP. I think.

    3. The Help-files contain descriptions and bendwith requirements.

    4. There is no absolute quality difference between 25i and 25p. The difference is how the footage is being interpreted, and how any animated stuff is generated. A one-second (push)wipe in a 25i project will move in 50 steps, whereas the same effect will move in 25 steps in a 25p project. It mostly determines that your final sequence will be 25p, and no interlaced elements (moving titles, DVE's) are generated.

    Whether or not the smoke effects will look good on DVD also has a great deal to do with the quality of the MPEG-2 encoding (which can be quite severe).

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jun 30 2008 1:49 PM In reply to

    Re: SDI - 25p capture & editing

    there's no 25p mode in Digital Betacam.

    Yes there is. Current generation of DB camcorders have progressive chips, and therefore are able to capture 25p and store as 50i without any motion step differences between the two fields for each frame.

     

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 1 2008 8:02 AM In reply to

    • Moses.M
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    Re: SDI - 25p capture & editing

    @Job ter Burg:

    that's what i meant with "frame" vs "field" mode. it's an available option even in our old DVW-700. as you agree, the signal on tape is 50i /60i.

    HP xw8400 - 6GB RAM | W7 64 bit | MC 5.5.2 | Adrenaline with DNxcel Sony Vaio SB1Z1 - 6GB Ram | W7 64 bit | Blackmagic Design Ultra Studio SDI [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 1 2008 9:27 AM In reply to

    Re: SDI - 25p capture & editing

    OK then. To me, that is 25p, just like film transferred to PAL can be 25p, even in a 625/50i environment. Also, Avid 25p projects are precisely for that type of content.

     

    Media Composer Symphony | PT Ultimate | Win10 HPZ | OSX MBP | ISIS5000 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jul 1 2008 1:15 PM In reply to

    • DKGen
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    • Joined on Mon, Sep 10 2007
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    Re: SDI - 25p capture & editing

    Ah thanks for all these answers.  I waited a long 4 days on the other forum without a peep.  Appreciated.

    Well we filmed it on the 970 Digi camera with the 1/25 setting (which I believe is progressive - according to the manual.  It looks nice on the monitor but I have not done any comparisons with old digi footage) and I've captured at 1:1.  All seems ok although for some reason I had to crash record while digitizing which meant no timecode but it's in the system now and I can start my work.  I couldn't get the deck to be recognised like the normal DigiBeta does.  (This one was just a player).

    One thing I have noticed is that now I am in 1:1 land.. any effects I add have to be rendered before they can be played.  It's only when you have to start rendering every single effect each time you add one that you realise how cool the mojo is with layer after layer of real time effects.  Is there any way I can get around this though?  Whilst I accept I probably have to do it I'd really like to check that I am not missing anything before I get deep in to the edit.

    Basically, 1 layer of video.  I add a simple speed bump or something and I have to render.  I have the mojo all attached as normal and must say I was a little bit dissapointed when I realised I had to render everything.

    Anyway, thanks again for the advice.  The XPro forum is too quiet and I'll be updating to MC very soon after this project.

    Regards

    HP XW8400 Workstation Dual 2.66GHz Xeon 3.00 GB RAM Quadro FX 1500 256 MB Avid XPPro v5.7.2 After Effects CS3 3ds Max 9 XP SP2 [view my complete system specs]
    HP XW8400 Workstation Dual 2.66GHz Xeon 3.00 GB RAM Quadro FX 1500 256 MB Avid XPPro v5.7.2 Mojo SDi XP SP2 G-tech Raid 1 TB Max 9 AE CS3 HVR M15E HPLP2465 JVC TM-H1750C CRT Monitor Samsung 40" LCD
  • Wed, Jul 2 2008 12:11 PM In reply to

    • DKGen
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    • Joined on Mon, Sep 10 2007
    • Posts 144
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    Re: SDI - 25p capture & editing

    bump regards the rendering effects question.

    HP XW8400 Workstation Dual 2.66GHz Xeon 3.00 GB RAM Quadro FX 1500 256 MB Avid XPPro v5.7.2 After Effects CS3 3ds Max 9 XP SP2 [view my complete system specs]
    HP XW8400 Workstation Dual 2.66GHz Xeon 3.00 GB RAM Quadro FX 1500 256 MB Avid XPPro v5.7.2 Mojo SDi XP SP2 G-tech Raid 1 TB Max 9 AE CS3 HVR M15E HPLP2465 JVC TM-H1750C CRT Monitor Samsung 40" LCD
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