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  • Wed, Jan 18 2023 5:35 PM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    I think it also comes down to your confidence as an editor in your chosen app.

    Mnay editors can and do learn a number of NLE apps but generally we are good at just one and that one is the one we can really be fast and creative in.

    Some editors will just say Avid (or Premiere or FCP or Resolve) is their NLE and thats the tool they use to cut on.

    Switching NLEs mid job can be a nightmare and raise all sorts of issues, (if its even slightly possible) and that compromises the integrity of the editor when they can't deliver, or are delayed and incur extra work that they can't charge for.

    I won't reccommend clients switch NLE. full stop. If they need to be in Premiere then start in that. And if they need me to edit then its not the job for me. If they want me its because I can deliver and I deliver on Avid.

     

     

     

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET (Retired Early 2022)

     

    Still offering training and support for: QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more.

    Mainly delivered remotely via zoom but onsite possible.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk

     

  • Wed, Jan 18 2023 5:45 PM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    Pat Horridge:

    I think it also comes down to your confidence as an editor in your chosen app.

    Mnay editors can and do learn a number of NLE apps but generally we are good at just one and that one is the one we can really be fast and creative in.

    Some editors will just say Avid (or Premiere or FCP or Resolve) is their NLE and thats the tool they use to cut on.

    Switching NLEs mid job can be a nightmare and raise all sorts of issues, (if its even slightly possible) and that compromises the integrity of the editor when they can't deliver, or are delayed and incur extra work that they can't charge for.

    I won't reccommend clients switch NLE. full stop. If they need to be in Premiere then start in that. And if they need me to edit then its not the job for me. If they want me its because I can deliver and I deliver on Avid.

    It was my decision to take the job on and use Premiere. I have no regrets, it's been an eye opening, frustrating experience.

    But I'll get the job done. I'm just not the editor I am in Avid, because of the above mentioned reasons. I'm FAST. And Avid lets me do so much more with my assistants, using the Nexus network system. As it is, my clients are overseas anyway, so they aren't going to be aware of all the tricky issues I'm facing.

    I live and learn!

    I really REALLY hope Avid sticks around at least until the end of my career!

    Mac Catalina 10.15.6 MacBook Pro 2019 2.6Ghz 32GB memory Media Composer 2021.9 [view my complete system specs]
  • Fri, Jan 20 2023 6:18 PM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    Not sure why, but I'd like to give my perspective:

    I've been a passionate AVID user since the earyly '90s. And I've been HATING PP for just as long -- as far back as when Macs had clones, and the "Targa" card was how you captured using Premiere. It was TERRIBLE then, and much of what I absolutely HATED about PP continues to this day. Don't get me started, I have a LONG list.

    HOWEVER, there's a right tool for every job. In all my years, I've gotten high-level proficient in AVID, AVID DS, Autodesk smoke, the Adobe suite, and, in the past two years, Resolve. Although I never CHOOSE to edit a job in Premiere, sometimes, the job calls for using it -- specifically, integrating animation coming from After Effects -- and yes, just about every freelancer, or client knows/wants Premiere. I'm one of the few remaining Avid users here in town (aside from the reality TV guys), and I've been called upon for several occasions to move whole projects from one-to-the-other.

    Similarly, we've had numerous huge jobs with impossible turnarounds that could ONLY have been done in Resolve so that mulitple editors can work on the same project at the same time WHILST a colorist was coloring at the SAME time -- absolutely no time for round-tripping. We've also had projects with OUT-OF-HOUSE editors/colorists accessing THE SAME project using the Resolve cloud.

    I will NEVER color a job using my Avid Symphony... it's better than the horror-show that is Lumetri, but once you know coloring in Resolve you'll never go back, and I've gotten super adept at workflows from Avid or Adobe to Resolve and ProTools and back... especially with our shared media storage.

    So I've been forcing myself to edit EVERYTHING in Resolve, because, honestly, AVID fell WAY too far behind the curve and even flat became inoperable a few versions back with our third-party shared storage. It's since been remedied, but after you start understanding the power and flexibility (smart-tagging, linking, proxies, GPU acceleration, sub-frame audio tools, dailies coversion/LUTS, DVEs, file-format flexibility, REAL updates, and and and) you start to realize that your attachment to a product from the dark ages is holding you back from getting your job done.

    At least, MY job. That said, if someone walked in the door tomorrow with a project requiring two weeks+ of creative editorial using (fairly) consistent sources, I'm CERTAIN I'd do my damdest to get it going in an AVID first, as there just is no better, faster, more intuitive tool for CREATIVE editorial... you just gotta navigate it's short-comings. I do miss it -- how I feel in it, how my flow subconciously moves in it -- but the past two years has shaken my confidence that the usual stuff we do can even be successfully completed using my Avid... seems like every time I try to go back there's some sort of issue.

    I will say that even though editorial in Resolve has really come a long, long way, there ARE things that still aren't ready for a whole-sale never-turning back resolve (no pun intended). Render caching can be irritating, speed warps can be infuriating, timecode adherence can be completely broken, and a lot of times, those gremlins just magically repair themselves just by restarting the software. Coming from smoke/flame, you'd think I would absolutely LOVE Fusion, but so far, the bug hasn't bit me, and from a graphics-editorial standpoint, I find myself frustrated fast (but hopefully I'm just not up to speed enough yet). Further -- compared to After Effects -- keyframing in Resolve just plain sucks (still better than Avid, though).

    In summary, there just is NO magic miracle software that does it all and does it better in all ways STILL to this day. The smoke (and the Avid DS) were the early pioneers in the small box/big box paradigm, and I truly feel Resolve is their evolution. Considering the price point, the break-neck updates, and the fact MOST color is getting done in Resolve, I think the future is obvious, and frankly, I'm SHOCKED more ad agencies haven't made it their go-to box yet (likely becuases of their designers). But, again, you can't have it all in one place. If your focus is creative editorial only, and someone else handles the finish, color, graphics/animation, then you have something you like for that. If the job necessitates a larger tool pallete at the expense of flow, there are tools for that, too.

    Ultimately, in MY market as a Post-guy, having a good familiarity with all has just become the prerequisite.

    J

    Custom, i7-13700K, AMD 6900XT, 64 GB RAM, m.2 SSD, 8x Fiber to Terrablock, BM SDI 4k (BMDTV 12.4.2), currently running Mac OS 13.2. MC Ultimate 2022.12 [view my complete system specs]
  • Sun, Jan 22 2023 8:27 PM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    This is an amazing reply, thank you so much. You've really nailed it for me, summed up how I feel about Avid in comparison to other platforms, and you've given me a lot to think about when it comes to using different packages.

    I guess in my industry of offline commercial editing, where we are ALWAYS pushing the edit to other people for grade, audio, VFX, etc, I've never needed to work with other softwares. We request whatever proxy files we want from the DIT which makes no difference to anyone else, and then just pump out the AAF file to the post house once complete.

    I'm fascinated that you edit in Resolve. I didn't even know it could do that!

    But again, thank you for your post. I'm going to forward it to my IT department.

    Mac Catalina 10.15.6 MacBook Pro 2019 2.6Ghz 32GB memory Media Composer 2021.9 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 23 2023 2:01 PM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    Hi. You should like using Premiere if just for the title tools they have. Just kidding. I have done it both ways ie Avid to Premiere and the other. Using an XML was pretty easy. I find Premiere to be what Final Cut Pro could have been if they had not decided to try to unsuccessfully reinvnet how we edit in the deplorable Final Cut X. I know one person who uses it. As I search the internet the top results are pretty thourough with simple papers on the topic. Linkedin learning formerly Lynda.com has some pretty great video courses about premiere and if you used Final Cut 7 then Premiere shouldn't be reasonably easy to pick up. I have cut features on both Avid and Premiere and they both have there problems. My big problem with Premiere is trim mode. Avid crushes the competition there. In Premiere it is pretty identical to Final Cut 7. Recently I even cut a small thing on the free Davinci resolve. The edit interface took a bit to get used and was limited but the finishing tools were superb ie exporting, available free plug ins and of course color correction if you need it. These three softwares are in my tool box. I too was forced into using Premiere but once I embraced it for what it did really well I began to love it. Revel in the fact that it has seamless integration with Photoshop and after effects and a Title tool which really works. Huzzah. Oh yes I can include Resolve into this easy flow between as I have done this pretty easily also. THre is also some much more info online about Adobe products. To find info on an Avid problem you really have to search.

    Oh yah here is a biggy. For less than the price of MC Ultimate you get the entire Adobe Creative Suite of 20 or so apps if you need them plus you can use on 2 computers without having to register and deregister each time. Which is a monster pain in the terminal. Also Adobe runs like stink on my new Mac Studio. I mean really fast and real time stuff. 

    Finally, I am an independent. I don't work in a large facility with multiple systems. Who does these days. I know from my experience you have use all the available NLEs and be flexible. If Avid could update a few things to keep up I would ask for getting the bugs out of scriptsync and fixing the Title tool dilema very soon.

    P.S not a single crash on the latest version of MC 2023 huzzah. Rock solid 2022 was a bit of a nightmare with all sorts of little glitches and crashes.

  • Mon, Jan 23 2023 2:08 PM In reply to

    • Dragos
    • Not Ranked
    • Joined on Wed, Oct 19 2022
    • Posts 46
    • Points 540

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    Oh, the horror etc.:

    Oh yah here is a biggy. For less than the price of MC Ultimate you get the entire Adobe Creative Suite

    Totally agree that Creative Cloud is much, much better value, but still, MC Ultimate is 480EUR/year and ACC is 700EUR/year.

    Win 10 Pro 21H2, intel i7-4790, 32GB RAM, RTX2070 [view my complete system specs]
  • Mon, Jan 23 2023 4:55 PM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    And Resolve is free, or $299 one-time for the Studio version

    Custom, i7-13700K, AMD 6900XT, 64 GB RAM, m.2 SSD, 8x Fiber to Terrablock, BM SDI 4k (BMDTV 12.4.2), currently running Mac OS 13.2. MC Ultimate 2022.12 [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jan 24 2023 3:06 PM In reply to

    • dlogneb
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Aug 27 2014
    • Posts 251
    • Points 3,005

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    This thread has sort of lost the thread hasn't it?   I'm defintiely worried about Avid's future because it has so many issues and is clunky in so many ways.  But currently it is still far-and-away my favorite editing application.  

    If you think Creative Cloud is a better deal, or Resolve for free is better, why are you on this forum?  I'm not saying you shouldn't critique or criticize Avid for real or preceived mismanagment and terrible bugs and features, but it seems silly to claim that other software is a better deal and yet still use Avid to edit your projects.    

    Avid MC 2022.10 & 2022.7 Mac Os Monterey (12.6.1 & 12.3.1) MacStudio Apple M1 Ultra 128GB [view my complete system specs]
  • Tue, Jan 24 2023 5:13 PM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    dlogneb:

    This thread has sort of lost the thread hasn't it?   I'm defintiely worried about Avid's future because it has so many issues and is clunky in so many ways.  But currently it is still far-and-away my favorite editing application.  

    If you think Creative Cloud is a better deal, or Resolve for free is better, why are you on this forum?  I'm not saying you shouldn't critique or criticize Avid for real or preceived mismanagment and terrible bugs and features, but it seems silly to claim that other software is a better deal and yet still use Avid to edit your projects.    

    I think you're missing the point of this thread, and also the conclusion of my post.

     

    Custom, i7-13700K, AMD 6900XT, 64 GB RAM, m.2 SSD, 8x Fiber to Terrablock, BM SDI 4k (BMDTV 12.4.2), currently running Mac OS 13.2. MC Ultimate 2022.12 [view my complete system specs]
  • Wed, Jan 25 2023 9:28 AM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    Finding a route for a NLE product over time with a client base is no easy thing. Many factors will effect that development.

    So as users what we see as the development path is only a very small part of what's possible.

    I must say for years I felt the option for Avid to import a Premiere timeline would be a big feature for Avid.

    Obviously offering a Premiere Export would be less sensible (why make it easier for users to migrate to the competition)

    Of course it would be to Adobes gain to offer a n Avid sequence import function.

    However as they collabration between two competeing NLE products is going to be minimal at best so trying to keep a Premiere sequence import current and working would be a nightmare. Every Avid update would need to be considered as would every Premiere update, and Avid would have no idea whats changed until somebody complained it didn't work.

    So this is the world we work in and ist unlikley to change. The skilled will work out what NLE tools work best for what parts of the product and what transfers between NLEs can work and what limitations there are. They will spend a chunk of their time re testing and re solving this when updates happen.

    Its part of what makes valueable skilled people in this industry. If it all just worked seemlessly a lot of people would find thier skills no longer needed.

     

    HP Z840 3.1GHZ 20cores 128GB RAM M4000 GPU 1TB NVMe drive HP Z book 17 G2 2.7GHZ Quad core 32GB RAM Nvidia K3100M 1TB SSD drive ACI Moderator. I'm... [view my complete system specs]

     

    Broadcast & Post Production Consultant / Trainer  Avid Certified Instructor VET (Retired Early 2022)

     

    Still offering training and support for: QC/QAR Training - Understanding Digital Media - Advanced Files * Compression - Avid Ingest - PSE fixing courses and more.

    Mainly delivered remotely via zoom but onsite possible.

     

    T 07581 201248 | E pat@vet-training.co.uk

     

  • Wed, Jan 25 2023 12:53 PM In reply to

    • Mercer
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on Thu, Apr 15 2010
    • UK
    • Posts 855
    • Points 11,070

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    Oh, the horror etc.:
    Finally, I am an independent. I don't work in a large facility with multiple systems. Who does these days. I know from my experience you have use all the available NLEs and be flexible.

    I can only speak for the UK, but most every gainfully employed freelance or staff editor does here. That may be increasingly remote, as I have been for some time, but you're still using a large facility infrastructure. Again, from my perspective here there isn't really a 'World of Pemiere Pro', although I see a smattering of jobs using it, they are mostly branded, net and corporate. 95% of my livelihood and my familys has been paid for through using Avid, for the last 30 years. Avid is not a choice of NLE, it is simply the very best way to earn a good living as an editor and necessary for that. The other 5% recently has been Resolve for finishing only. I always turn away Premiere jobs, they pay less and I see no reason to learn other NLEs currently. I'm not saying that might not change in the future, if Avid don't keep on top of it.

    MC with Symphony option, 2022.10, HP ZBook 17 G5, i7-8850H 6 core/64GB ram/512 M2 ssd/Nvidia Quadro P5200/16GB/FHD, HP Thunderbolt Dock G2, BMD Ultrastudio... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Feb 23 2023 1:54 PM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    I hoped this discussion here would have helped me resolve my particular problem, but unfortunately it seems that it doesn't. Therefore, let me give you the essence of this and see if you consider this a valid contribution to the thread or not.

    We are a team of three, two directors/producers and one editor, working on a complex feature documentary with many (around 200) hours of recorded interviews, of which 80% are in English and 20% in other languages (Japanese, French, Italian, German). Adobe Premiere Pro's internal transcription made… transcriptions and exporting .srt files easy and effortless - and didn't explode our budget as an independent production.

    Now, our editor wants to use AVID Media Composer for his part of the work, and we would like to accomodate him because - he is really fast in Avid, it doesn't make any sense to have him learn a new EDL, and, of course, because everyone has the right to his own tools, right?

    Avid offers POTENTIALLY interesting solutions for documentary films such as ours: ScriptSync and PhraseFind. Using them would allow us directors/producers to work with out content (the words said by the protagonists) and collaborate with our editor in a much better way.

    The problem is: how do we export transcripts and / or subtitles into Avid so that ScriptSync and PhraseFind actually WORK as they are intended to? There is literally no information whatsoever about this anywhere. I guess that .srt files are "universally compatible" between all EDLs but that's not the point. ScriptSync and PhraseFind seem to require a specific format of transcripts and subtitles in order to work. Or am I wrong?

    Any help and advice on this would be hugely appreciated!

    director/producer with OUTREMER FILM (Berlin, Rome, Paris, Vienna)

  • Tue, Feb 28 2023 2:16 PM In reply to

    • dlogneb
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on Wed, Aug 27 2014
    • Posts 251
    • Points 3,005

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    PhraseFind, when activated, is automatic.  You simply type in a phrase into the find window and press "Phrase Find".   One of the biggest limitiations of PhraseFind is it always searches the entire project, which can make it slow.   You can filter the results by a specific bin or other things like clip/sequence name –– but the search is always the entire project.

     

    To use Script Sync you just need to export your transcripts as a text document with line breaks.  I believe MS Word has this functionality and some other apps.  I use BBEdit (Mac OS) because it works very well.   The thing to understand about ScriptSync is it syncs transcripts line by line and most standard text documents (on Mac at least) only have line breaks for each paragraph.  So if you import a standard text document Script Sync will only sync to each paragraph, which is not very helpful.  So that's why you must use an app that can save text "with line breaks".

    Your line length in your text document determines how finely it syncs your transcript.  It's a balance.  For example you don't want lines that are only 15 characters long, that would be like a narrow receipt and impossible to read.   I usually go for 64 characters per line, sometimes a bit longer.    BBEdit has a feature called "hard wrap" that allows you set the line length for a whole document and re-wraps it for you.

    It is crazy that Avid can't just import a text document, but it is also not very difficult to make these text documents even if it has become a bit obscure. 

    Once you have created a text document for a transcript, in Avid you select  File/New/New Script from the menu bar and then import the text document.  Avid will create a "Script" file in your project.   Now you can drop clips, groups, or mulitigroups onto the script.   You want to select the area of the script that the clip relates to.  Often in documentary you have an interview multigroup for the entire script.  So you select-all in the script and then drop the clip onto the script.   It will show up in the script as a line.  Now select-all and choose "Script Sync" from the menu bar and it should chug away for a 30 seconds up to a few minutes for a very long transcript.  Once it is done, you should be able to click on any line in the script and Media Composer will load the clip into the source monitor at that point.

     

    Chris Bové – the line breaks seem like something simple Avid could remedy.  Surely it is not too difficult to add a "line break" function into ScripSync function? 

    Avid MC 2022.10 & 2022.7 Mac Os Monterey (12.6.1 & 12.3.1) MacStudio Apple M1 Ultra 128GB [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Mar 2 2023 4:04 AM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    Outside of the suggestions for Script Sync, you can also export the Premiere transcript (once translated into captions in Premiere), and export THAT as a caption file, which you can import into a MATCHING Avid sequence, using the SubCap effect on an empty timeline layer.

    This will, of course, create open captions for that entire sequence, derived from the Premiere-transcribed caption file.

    j

    Custom, i7-13700K, AMD 6900XT, 64 GB RAM, m.2 SSD, 8x Fiber to Terrablock, BM SDI 4k (BMDTV 12.4.2), currently running Mac OS 13.2. MC Ultimate 2022.12 [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Mar 2 2023 1:53 PM In reply to

    Re: The future of Avid in a world with Premiere Pro

    What's the state of (affordable) art for automatically-made SRT files that can round trip from an MC wav or other file and back into MC as a SRT? Does Premiere or anyone else provide custom speaker names identification the way human-transcribed audio can? So we know who's talking. Can Premiere or ??? add timecodes in its SRT or in a .txt export, as well? That would be sweet if we could get all that with minimal typos.
    Thanks for any further notes and tips!

     

    -Telegram!

     

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