I installed 2022.7 (why, that's another story).   THe only improvement I see is that TItler+ no longer defaults any type you edit to Arial size 50 - that appears fixed.  But so, so many issues remain.   I'm trying to lay out titles for a project today and ran into these issues in only 15 mins work.   I have filed a bug report for the following issues, and there are many, many more.

- the Titler+ window still appears randomly on either of my two monitors, and almost never in the location it was last used at 

- all Titler+ titles must be rendered, else playback stutters to a crawl 

- type still appears outside the red type bounding box 

- the functional difference between the red bounding box for type, and the 
white bounding box for the object, is not clear, and nor is their relationship to scale and layout. 

- for example, changing the size of the white bounding box changes the size of the font, without changing the font size 'number' in the Titler+ box, making consistent type size across multiple titles difficult to maintain, because there are now two numbers to check - the font size, and the scale of the bounding box. This overcomplicated things. 

- changing the line leading of a few lines of text does not resize the red text bounding box, with the result that centering or aligning the text no longer works, and the red box has to be adjusted again before re-applying centering or whatever alignment. 

- actually selecting the text can be very difficult - in text mode, clicking within the text often does not give you a cursor, and text can be impossible to edit. 

- rescaling the red text box from, for example, the bottom left corner, causes the text box to resize downwards, and away from the actual text. It's impossible to understand what's going on with this action. 

- Trimming a Titler+ layer by grabbing a clip beginning or end with the segment/trim tool, or jumping into Trim mode is still dreadfully slow, and results in any least six seconds of beach balling before any operation can happen. 

- Command-A, the standard (Mac) command for Select All, does not work within the text box, yet Command-C and Command-V do - inconsistent UI. 

- with all text selected/highlighted, changing the Leading frequently does absolutely nothing, yet the number changes. No change occurs in the type layout. Yet sometimes it does work.

It's almost two years since Kate Ketcham's Sept 2020 note at the top of this forum, and Titler+ is barely - BARELY - more workable today than it was then, and is still an absolute embarrassment.

Hi Philip, hope you're well!

Great to read you have logged these issues via support cases, although I must say I don't experience a few of these... We obviously have different system configurations, but I imagine that makes it difficult to recreate and fix.

There has been an awful lot of work here. Since January 2022 they've fixed well over 100 T+ bugs not listed on the readmes. More performance boosts and fixes in general are planned.

Hi Philip Owens, and thanks for posting.

All of these are known things being worked on. There is a huge backlog, which is compiled from everyone's feature requests and bug logging over the last 4 years. Each new release contains fixes, and sees that backlog get reduced. Sometimes they're fixes that are "low hanging fruit" and were able to be done in a matter of a few weeks, but many times they are fixes that have been in development and testing for a while longer. Once a fix or a feature gets the green light, it gets released.

In the meantime, go here to page 7, and you'll see all of the fixes specifically released in MC 2022.7: 

https://resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/attach/README_Avid_Editor_v22.7.pdf

Honestly I'm so sick of hearing how Avid is trying really hard to get it all fixed. Your grace period ran out years ago IMO. This is an absolute joke at this point. I am reliably informed by a very large enterprise customer that around 70% of the productions they work on are still using 2018.12.15 because they are too scared to risk one of the new versions.  As for each new release - there have only been 2 this year? This is not a personal attack on any Avid folk here in the forums, I appreciate and respect all your hard work, but this is personally causing my production huge issues and is reflecting very very poorly on the company. Nothing should take 4 years to fix. Nothing. If it takes 4 years to fix then it is broken. I would like to hear from Jeff Rosica about this.

Andi

Hi Andi

Jeff is currently out of the country in the UK actually at the Voice of the Customer event where I am sure the titler + topic will be brought up. 

There will be more improvements over time and as Dave Colantuoni, VP of Product Management has said:

MC 2022.4 and 2022.6 introduced the first parts of the titler + optimizations together with more than 120 bug fixes – which received for the first time some positive feedback from users.  Then with 2022.7, there were an additional 12 major fixes and a few dozen interanlly found and fixed as well.  There is alengthy laundry list on the fixes in 2022.7 that are outlined in the readme here:  https://resources.avid.com/SupportFiles/attach/README_Avid_Editor_v22.7.pdf

Engineering continues the work to optimize the performance and stability in additional areas of the tool and aim to have additional milestones later this year.   I cant make your customers upgrade but my hope is that you have Andi and seen the vast iprovements over the last few releases.  BTW we have released 3 updates to MC so far this year with more coming.

I will ask that Dave check in here and read the feedback - and you can always email me direct Andi.  one question is are these customers on 2018.12.15 able too upgrade or are they stuck at that version because they didnt want to move forward because of this?

Marianna

Hi Marianna. I couldn't tell you whether they are able to upgrade or, like me, stuck not being able to upgrade due to the titler+ thing. I presume it's a combination of both - bad PR caused by title tool and bugs and actually really needing the old title tool. This was just mentioned to me by my reseller but it's quite a remarkable situation. I was told to write off any version between 2019 and 2022.4 as useless.

For me, I don't have time to troubleshoot bugs during a series, I need it to work perfectly all the way through, which is what 2018.12.15 does (usually - see my recent post on CPU usage) and we need a title tool that works and doesn't slow everything to a crawl as there is a lot of title usage in our VTs. I'm not willing to risk the downtime by installing versions which still have problems and when no one can give me a solid recommendation for a stable version - not even my reseller (who will be at the event you speak of talking to Jeff).

We'll probably end up having to migrate from all Macs to PCs which is going to cost a fortune and require things like re-formatting all our storage etc. It is really frustrating to still see posts after every new release by people saying that basically nothing has changed because I desperately want to upgrade but I just can't take the risk. So we're paying for licenses but not getting access to any of the improvements being made in the rest of the program which does not seem like a fair deal.

How many more years are we expected to wait? 

Andi

Thanks for responding back Andi

Im would be disapointed in the reseller if they havent approached Avid to discuss - and are just dismissing those versions. But not knowing the scoop on thier end, I will give them the benefit of the doubt.   

Let me see if I can get Dave or Sarah or Dennis to chime in as they are the ones who drive the direction and more.  I'll ping back when Ireach them....  as I know Dave is also out but Sarah and Dennis might be around the mother ship.

Marianna

Hey Andi,

First off, I would be happy to have a zoom call with you at any time to discuss the Titler + development.  And you are 100% right, there is little excuse for the length of time on the development.  I wish I could accelerate the development faster, believe me, there is nothing i would like to get to our customers than a stable, working version of a titler.  We are working and releasing updates as fast as possible, we've put more engineers on the project and moved a senior architect on the project to make sure we are engineering this as best as we can do.  All I can say is we released an update in April, July and we have another update planned in September.  The September release will be significant as it will fix some major performance bugs. We are doing everything possible to get this right, its no excuse, but I want to assure you, your voice and frustration are heard and we are working to fix this issue.

Thanks

Dave

It is a little crazy that a Titler is causing this much drama. Love me some Avid but this like the least thing youd expect to give you trouble in an NLE and alas - were like 3 years in on this thing and not far off from where we started. 

For me its the rendering every time you have to playback a sequence, and seemingly every change in a timeline will break a titles render. I do shortform marketing stuff (trailers). I havent had to actually render anything in like a decade except these silly titles that are just temp static black and white text. 

Robert Goodman :

...were like 3 years in on this thing...

It's actually five and a half years, or longer.   In January 2017, Apple announced that by Jan 2018, they would "no longer accept 32-bit apps in the App Store", and that "High Sierra would be the last macOS to suport 32-bit apps without compromise".   Everyone in the tech community knew this announcement was coming.   I'm no geek, just scan arstechnica now and again, and even I knew Quicktime (the mechanics underlying the old TItle Tool) was going to be killed way before that announcement - it was inevitable.

So you'd have to guess Avid knew six years ago they would need a new way of titling on the Mac..   Six years work to arrive at today, where you can't even type a two line lower third in Helvetica, no drop shadow or softness or any effects, and play it back at Draft Quality without having to render it.   And woe betide you need to fix a typo, or trim the cut point.   I work in feature docs, so I have maybe 40 lower thirds and a good few cards and the occaisonal rough graphic needing titles. It's an absolute horror show.  And forget it if you're thinking of having multiple editors sending bins around - titles render differently (like, actually completely offscreen differently) on two other editor's systems I send mine to every day.

I am really grateful for the work the coders and bug reporting teams are doing to try to fix things and I'm really grateful for whatever pressure Marianna and the mods here are presenting to management .  No individual within immediate reach of this forum is in any way to blame.  But terrible management decisions were made years ago, and an editor without a titler is an unusable editor, and I can't go through the pain of the last 2 years again.   And at the pace things are going, I can't expect things to be workable before my next project.   So after this project I'm going to Premiere or maybe Resolve until Titler+ is sorted out, because I literally can't go back to 2018.x - what computer can I run it on?  I'd have to buy a used older Mac?   Really?

Really sorry to have to flame so hard.

Marianna:

Im would be disapointed in the reseller if they havent approached Avid to discuss

That line justifies a direct honest response But I will keep the big rant for a private mail.

I haven't posted on this topic for a while but here's something that I discovered just now. I make a T+ title and I plan to use Foreground Level KFs to fade on and off. I set the Effect Editor to only add KFs to open graphs. I open the FG Level graph (only that one). I hit the new KF button on either the UI or the keyboard and KFs are added to all parameters of the Text layer but NOT to the FG Level graph (see image). I can right-click and use 'Add KF' but ... Other effects act as expected. MC 2022.7, iMac, 11.6.4 Big Sur. 40GB RAM. New user settings.

Hi Roger.  Is that a mistype in your post, or are you indeed using a 2-year old version? If so... lots of fixes since then. :)  Ping me, and I'll set you up with a new version you can test. 

I am using 2022.7. Post corrected. also see this on 2022.4.