mcdannyj:

STILL locks up my system when I try to change the color on any text! Boo!

This bug has been in the tool since its initial release. What gives? I don't do anything fancy. Just type some text, then fool around with fonts, placement. Tne new tweaks are nice. they make things like text placement really fast. When I select text and try to change the color though? I get locked out of doing anything. I can't even quit the app. I have to force quit. Really? I'm kinda astonished this hasn't been fixed.

 Wow, is this still happening for everyone? That's kind of astonishing.

I'm generally a very reluctant upgrader because of this type of unexpected and disruptive curveball. And I smelled trouble with Titler+ a long time ago, which is one reason I've been perfectly content to stay on MC2018 with my aging but rock solid classic Mac Pro. But for other reasons, I have to upgrade to MC2021 or 2022, so now have to reckon with this Titler+ situation. So i'm watching this thread closely. Again...is everyone dealing with this change-text-color-lockup problem?

funckdren:

mcdannyj:

STILL locks up my system when I try to change the color on any text! Boo!

This bug has been in the tool since its initial release. What gives? I don't do anything fancy. Just type some text, then fool around with fonts, placement. Tne new tweaks are nice. they make things like text placement really fast. When I select text and try to change the color though? I get locked out of doing anything. I can't even quit the app. I have to force quit. Really? I'm kinda astonished this hasn't been fixed.

 Wow, is this still happening for everyone? That's kind of astonishing.

I'm generally a very reluctant upgrader because of this type of unexpected and disruptive curveball. And I smelled trouble with Titler+ a long time ago, which is one reason I've been perfectly content to stay on MC2018 with my aging but rock solid classic Mac Pro. But for other reasons, I have to upgrade to MC2021 or 2022, so now have to reckon with this Titler+ situation. So i'm watching this thread closely. Again...is everyone dealing with this change-text-color-lockup problem?

Hey,

Would you be able to create a support case?

Link: https://www.avid.com/learn-and-support/contact-support

If this can be re-created it can be reported internally. The more people who do this the more eyes this gets

Heyo, long-time lurker, first time poster!  Wanted to get in some feedback for 22.4 for ya'll since the Titler+ updates were the big draw for me.  I'm excited to see more improvements in the coming months as well!

Pro:

-New UI on the floating tool is A+.  Much more cohesive, makes a lot more sense.  And the re-org'd layout in the effect editor is a very good step in the right direction.

-Performance is improved when typing out a title.  Typing out no longer t a k e s  f o r e v e r  t o  r e g i s t e r.  Feels much snappier.  Rad!

Con:

-Anchor points still cause a lot of confusing behavior.  They default to being placed in the lower left-ish of any text box, making expected rotation/scaling keyframe behave wildly.  From what I can tell in the manual, it seems like its expected to default to the center of any text box, which makes total sense, but in practice it doesn't seem to behave as such.  There doesn't seem to be any position snapping when using the red cross-arrow on the anchor point, meaning I can't attach them to the center of a box.  And when they're turned off in the effect editor they default to being in the far top left of the composer window, including after every time I move the text box around.  I would assume un-checking that box would default it back to center of box, but it doesn't seem like that's how it's supposed to work?  Compounding it with keyframes to try to create intricate moves/rotations creates further odd and unexpected behaviors.  The "Hide Anchor Point" button also works only intermittently.  I tried all of this on both new and old user settings/new and old projects after a clean uninstall/install of the 22.4 version. Maybe it's just me?

The workaround I've found is:

1. Center a text box both vertically and horizontally
2. Manually set the horizontal value of an anchor point in the effect editor to be 480
3. Manually set the vertical value of an anchor point in the effect editor to be 270
   

This makes rotation and scaling behave much more as expected.

(I'm not sure if these numbers only apply to a 1080p project, but if anything I feel like they'd belong more in a 480p project, no?)

Interestingly, new recatangles and ellipses have their anchor points default to the center correctly.  The issue only seems to happen with text boxes.

Confused:

-How are the Align Center/Align Horizontal Center buttons and the Align Center/Align Vertical Center buttons different?  Both seem to snap boxes to the center for H or V, but I don't see an immediate difference in how they do that.

-Layers swap numbers upon new text boxes being generated or being moved between layers.  I begin with a text box, it is named Layer 1.  I create another text box, that new one is now Layer 1 and my first box is now Layer 2.  I create a third text box, it's called Layer 1, the second text is Layer 2, the first text is Layer 3.  I create a fourth text box, it's called Layer 1, the third text is called Layer 2, the second text box is Layer 3 and the first text box is Layer 4. I understand that the layer numbering is trying to illustrate the order of the layers from front to back, with 1 in the front and (in this example) 4 in the back, and that each newly created text box is placed at the front.  But changing up the names on the fly while not giving me random access to the parameters of all of my layers at one time is difficult to juggle in my brain. I do have a suggestion below, however~

Speaking of which, the buttons for selecting different layers seems odd to me.  The |<-  button makes me think I'm going to the previous event, while the ->| button makes me think I'm going to the next event, or something in horizontal X space, not front to back Z space.  Maybe something more like 3D arrows that point away or towards the user?  Just a thought.

Would love to see:

-A dock-able Titler+ tool window.  The floating window offers a nice UI, but being unable to dock it is annoying.  Hot-keying the T+ button is a decent compromise, but the window is still prone to appearing in unwanted spots this way.  I've read arguments on these forums about folding the Titler+ UI and tools into the effect editor which I'm only 50/50 on.  The organization of tools in the floating window is much more pleasing and easy to read, but the effect editor is necessary for any sort of keyframing.  This keeps thing in distinct and separate "title creation" and "keyframe manipulation" areas which is kind of nice for me, personally.  A dock-able window would at least be easier to customize as desired.

-Better layer management.  The UI in the effect editor for swapping layers isn't easy to understand using the current drop down, and it means that I can't see keyframes for Layer 1 while I'm working on Layer 2.  This is particularly frustrating if I want to time a keyframe for 1 based on 2's other movements. Now that the organization of parameters in the effects editor is much more sensible, maybe each layer can get its own drop-down?  Similar to how multiple effects on a clip each have their own drop-down?  This way I'd be able to see Layers 1-4 all at the same time and access each of their parameters randomly.  Maybe even the ability to drag them up/down in the order and relate to their placement of front/back?  I believe this would also alleviate a lot of my confusion with the Layers naming conventions if I could easily see where all of my edits and keyframes went in the effect editor. 

Josephius:

Heyo, long-time lurker, first time poster!  Wanted to get in some feedback for 22.4 for ya'll since the Titler+ updates were the big draw for me.  I'm excited to see more improvements in the coming months as well!

FANTASTIC! 

Many thanks for posting this, I agree with your points. I've forwarded this on internally. 

Hi Philip,

I didn't see your post until just now. Good point. I just created a support case. We'll see if I get any response.

Cheers,

Dan

Is it just my incompetence or are other people seeing the Titler+ palette disappear after every title edit?  You bring up the Titler+  palette, do one thing (justify, retype, try and change the text box size, etc.) and then the palette disappears the second you make that one change.  If this is indeed a system thing and not me being obtuse, then it needs to be fixed so the palette opens and closes when you want it to, not after every edit.  Otherwise, it seems promising...

Any chance you have 2 displays?

I've seen a lot of editors with 2 monitors that don't have the 2nd display set as a Host Panel in the Windows > Host Panel settings.  Easy way to check is if you see the "-+x" buttons in the top corner (left corner on Mac, right corner on Windows).  If, for example, you have your composer and timeline docked together on a monitor that has those buttons visible, then you effectively have a giant floating "tool" window, not a host panel'd display.  This means that that entire floating window is subject to the same rules that other floating windows have to deal with; if you click on the window behind your current one (the Titler+ palette), that's the one that comes to the front. You mention retyping or fixing the text box, both of which require you to click on the "behind" window in this example, thus bringing it to the front - effectively making your Titler+ palette "disappear," when really it could just be behind the gigantic tool window.

I see this happen all the time with a lot of my editors thanks to remote VM wonky-ness; some workspaces reset their positioning information for one reason or another, and then the 2nd display loses its Host Panel status. 

Important to note that this behavior doesn't happen on whichever display is set to the "main display."  I.E. if you go to Windows > Host Panels, the main display is whichever one is perpetually greyed out with a checkmark.  Although that display probably has the "-+x" buttons, that window is perpetually kept at the background of whatever tools float in front of it.

Should be an easy fix: Windows > Host Panels, then make sure both options are checked.  You'll likely then need to reorganize the 2nd display, but that's easy enough to drag your composer/timeline tools onto using the purple tabs on the tools.  After that, the Titler+ shouldn't "disappear" anymore.

I do have two displays...I moved the Titler palette to the other monitor and now it stays.  Thanks for the suggestion!

I think this topic is a real indication of Avids change in direction. 

Having worked in TV and broadcast for over 20 years supporting and using MC, I'm gobsmacked at the idea that titles as master clips in a bin are disliked.

That's no editor I have ever worked with or supported.

In fact the opposite has been my experience.

Titles are assets in every job I've ever done, that I share, and re use and manage.

So is TV and broadcast really not Avids market any longer?

Or could it be that those editors and post houses don't spend their time communicating with Avid and have no voice?

And a new generation of Avid editors who really want Premiere as their tool have spoken louder?

The whole Titler + direction makes much more sense in that light and its not going to be the sort of tool that worked in TV and post so well before. 

bonang:

+1, and I suspect many, many more. I know of no one asking for this, and certainly did not read about that odd conclusion here, or elsewhere. Sadly, sounds like a false justifiation for a very misplaced path towards the need for a Mac-compatible titler. 

And of course, that was four years ago...more than sufficient time to correct. For me, it was far too little, too late in the game - after 30 years as a Media Composer owner, I ended my renewal for my last remaining license in Dec. 2021, a year after the then Customer Advocate promised significant improvements in Titler+ in the course of 2021. History proves otherwise, and I was done with the hopeful smoke being blown by Avid's advocates here in the forums. 

I too am considering ending my renewal for my license after about 15 years as a Media Composer user. Part of my reasoning is that I am now retired and don't feel that I'm getting the value out of my annual renewal fee (there just haven't been sufficient improvements to justify the high price tag and the direction of features such as the titler+ is too little, too late). I do hope that Avid gets their act together and accelerates the pace of development for future editors. It's just not the right tool for me any longer. Caveat - this is as much an indictment of my needs as it is of Avid's failure to deliver.

Chris Bové:

all industries, from Hollywood to TV to individual freelancers and so on, reported to Avid that that the method of creating each new title and having it result in a new master clip and media file in a bin was a universally disliked trait of the old system. 

The obvious choice to everyone at the time to fix that was to simply make titles become effects. This would allow an editor to make all sorts of changes, but not to need to render any of them, nor result in the titles getting populated into bins and into the managed AvidMediafiles folders.

Pat Horridge:

That's no editor I have ever worked with or supported. So is TV and broadcast really not Avids market any longer? The whole Titler + direction makes much more sense in that light and its not going to be the sort of tool that worked in TV and post so well before. 

Chris,

I'm afraid that I also do not remember ever hearing about any such request. Not on these forums or from our customers. Now... Greece is not exactly known for its technological progressiveness so that doesn't mean much.

Again I'm no editor, but I'm not sure why others users disliked it and I'm pretty sure many of us here would like to learn, but more importantly, why did Avid find this design change of such importance that it justified redesigning this aspect of titler? I assume you aren't saying that this 'feature request/design change', and any of the others, are the reasons the development path of titler+ has been such a difficult one.

In other words... you customers are too polarized. It's your fault we can't make the tools that work for all of you.

Jeff Cue:

Is it just my incompetence or are other people seeing the Titler+ palette disappear after every title edit?  You bring up the Titler+  palette, do one thing (justify, retype, try and change the text box size, etc.) and then the palette disappears the second you make that one change.  If this is indeed a system thing and not me being obtuse, then it needs to be fixed so the palette opens and closes when you want it to, not after every edit.  Otherwise, it seems promising...

Yes, the management of windows such as the T+ mini-tool is something that has a few geography bugs in it. Well... Not exactly "bugs"... more like the way that the original T+ team implemented things, and now are things that the new T+ team are working on.  So yes, it's a known workflow issue. 

Thanks Chris.  I moved the palette to the other monitor and it stays up now, so no biggie.

Gotcha.

Interesting fix... Let me message that fix to the MC team. It might help them in their fixing of the root cause.

With the Titler+ palette and the effects edit window open on the lefthand monitor, it stays open and they're handy right next to each other.