DStone:

And to get back on track for the thread, if you need a small lightwieght camera, consider the Sony PXW-X70. It's XAVC-I, so it directly links in MC, has a 1-inch sensor, and if you strip off the top handle (which contains the XLR connectors) it looks just like a consumer handycam and doesn't attract any attention (there's a built-in mic on the camera body for when you're not using the XLRs).

Actually XAVC-L not XAVC-I. Bit harder on your editing system than XAVC-I, but Avid can link to it. In 4K (a paid upgrade) I think most users except those with the latest editing systems will probably choose to transcode. 

Once again - I reiterate, camera choice comes down to many factors and the least of them should be your edit system. The PXW-X70 is an excellent camera for ENG and well lit live events, budget corporate,  etc but it's lens is not a constant F stop so it's limited to F4 at the tele end, which means despite the back illuminated 1" sensor it isn't much chop in low light.

If you're shooting drama or high end corporate it is totally not the right camera. IMO. 

Pick a camera that suits your budget and shooting style and take into account extras you may need to buy to make it compatible with your edit system.

DStone:

For those using XAVC-S, you don't have to transcode. XAVC-S can be rewrapped into a ,MOV file. It's considerably faster (hundreds of frames per second). I use Convert V4/Dali's Mustache (yes, that's the new name for it) all the time. I rewrap directly from the card to a hard drive, and link that. And since I'd be copying the media from the card to the hard drive in any case, there's no wasted space. Nor is there any loss of quality as it's the same data just in a different container (the problem with XAVC-S isn't the data format; MC can handle the format as is. It's the XAVC-S container that's the problem.)

I know it is just a rewrap, but dependend on the workflow, it is time you're loosing and time is money. I could easily plug in 4 FS7 (XAVC-I) cards in a thunderbolt-XQD-Dock and consolidate directly in MC or begin editing via ama. But that is not the topic.

Mondo:

Pick a camera that suits your budget and shooting style and take into account extras you may need to buy to make it compatible with your edit system.

^ This is the best advice you can get, cause of the crazy amount of different cameras/models that are out on the market.

so long & thx

dbiok

Hi everyone! Thank you so much for all of your posts.  Very helpful.  So basically i'm coming from an old Canon XF300. It AMA's very well with Avid and then I do a consolidation.  I'm interested in moving up to 4K now.  I really like the ability to take advantage of the 18x zoom lens.

Sony's solutions are nice, but looks like 4K is geared more towards cinema and less on ENG formats.The 4K camera should be able to do 60p.  60p is very important to me as I film material with lots of fast movement, i.e. piano recitals, etc. etc.

Obviously there'sd no perfect camera.  The external recorders are great because you can then just do a quick import with native DNxHR suport, but the downside is that they are quite bulky.  It's nice to be able to record internally into these cameras.

The XAVC-I format is good since Avid supports it so that's very nice.  Obviously it uses a lot more space on the cards.  I wish there was a 4K version of the Sony EX1R :((

AsafBlasberg:

 I wish there was a 4K version of the Sony EX1R :((

Take a serious look at the Sony FS5.    I went from the EX1R to the FS7 and I love the camera.  The learning curve was quick, since the menu system was similiar to the EX.   It even uses the same batteries.    The FS5 is a smaller, cheaper version of the FS7...about the same price as I initially paid for my EX five years ago.

I tried it.  It was a VERY noisy camera to be honest with you.  Also, no 60P so a deal breaker, and no 18x zoom lens so I can't do my creepy long range zooms :((

If there

AsafBlasberg:

I tried it.  It was a VERY noisy camera to be honest with you.  Also, no 60P so a deal breaker, and no 18x zoom lens so I can't do my creepy long range zooms :((

If the FS7 out of your price range?  Since I moved up to the FS7 from the EX1R, I've been putting together a nice set of lenses that meet my specific shooting needs.   Lenses tend to hold their value, so you can upgrade the camera when something better comes along and keep your lenses.   I worked with a guy who still swears by a set of prime cine lenses from the 1970's.

It's not, but i've been disappointed with Sony's lenses to be honest with you.  I tried once a Sony G lens 18-110.  Images were quite soft with that lens. Then I tried the 18-200 SELP, with the power zoom, which was very sharp, but had a zoom error.  Every time you zoom in, it gets out of focus for a bit.  Total dealbreaker. And since sony doesn't make even a 10x power zoom lens, i'm extremely limited in my range.  I film in the back of the venues, so having a zoom lens is very important.  Also, i'm aware of a B4 HD lens with adapter, but the adapter softens the image since it magnifies it a bit.

I was thinking DVX200, yes fixed lens but it has a 13x servo zoom lens.  But then you need an external recorder.  Pain in the ***.

If I record with FS7 using XAVC-Intra, how much recording time would I get on a 64GB XQD? Intra takes up tons of space.  Then, I tried the Long version but Avid is very slow with it, so I have to transcode to DNxHR...

The PXW-X200 is basically the lastest version of the EX1.  If you liked that camera, check it out. 

AsafBlasberg:

If I record with FS7 using XAVC-Intra, how much recording time would I get on a 64GB XQD? Intra takes up tons of space.

That's why I record to an Atomos with an SSD.  FWIW, if you mount it on your camera with a simple hot shoe adapter, it doesn't really add much weight.   I used to use an Atomos with the EX1R and it greatly improved the quality and effiency of the camera.

Hi, the X200 doesn't shoot in 4K, so that's out the window. My perfect camera would be the PXW-Z450 2/3" camera, but at $25k that's very expensive.

Take another look at the FS5 and FS7 mk II. These are both E-mount cameras, and the Sony E-mount is highly adaptable to most other lens mounts out there. The only consideration is one of electrical compatibility (and there are 3rd party adapters that can handle that problem). The only major issue is one of lens metadata, if that's important to you. If you prefer a non-Sony, sharp 10X zoom, you can get one.

And if you're looking a 2/3" ENG camera, consider the Black Magic Ursa Mini 4.6K with B4 adapter.

The optical adapters that take a B4 lens and make it stretch to a Super35 mm sensor sacrifice many things. Because they expand the image circle, you loose sharpness. Also, softness of edges also occurs. With the Blackmagic solution, you must shoot in HD, so that doesn't work.

With the FS5/7, you have to set it up for Center Crop mode, and then you can only shoot in 2K. So that doesn't work.  It'd have to get the PXW-Z450 which is a *native* B4 2/3" camera, but at $23k it's pricey, as I mentioend previously.  So there is a tradeoff to everything.  I'm going to test the DVX200 next week. Has 4K 60P and a 13x zoom lens. If I hook it up to an Atomos, I can record direct to DNXHR LB. Then I just do a fast import which really helps.

Thanks guys! :)

Let us know what you think of the DVX200. I thought of getting that camera myself, but it's pretty heavy to hold by hand for long periods of time and most of what I do is handheld. Especially if you add an Atomos to the mix.

I think it might help for you to decide if you are looking for a std. 3 tube 2/3 eng camera - or the super 35mm

sensor,

AsafBlasberg:

Hi, the X200 doesn't shoot in 4K, so that's out the window. My perfect camera would be the PXW-Z450 2/3" camera, but at $25k that's very expensive.

Here is a new panasonci camera -  it is not out yet but their color science is very nice - look at the specs

Panasonic AU-EVA1 Compact 5.7K Super 35mm Cinema Camera -

check the specs on BH or wherever you buy -  been alot of talk about this camera - the only drawback I see for myself is the there is not a viewfinder - maybe the released one will have one - plus you can always add one.

I actaully have always stayed with SONY - but this does look interesting

LDV20:

I actaully have always stayed with SONY

Then reconsider the FS7 (body only) and instead of the "kit lens" check out these new lenses from Fujinon:

http://www.fujifilmusa.com/press/news/display_news?newsID=881136

I use a cheap Lumix G7 for our productions that is outstanding at 4K while waiting for the GH5 to arrive (for 2 months now! ). Unbelievable image at 100Mbits. I am pretty sure that GH5 is the best camera for its relatively little money. More on that when it'll be on my hands.