Latest post Thu, Oct 16 2014 7:38 PM by usatraveler. 11 replies.
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  • Wed, Oct 15 2014 8:48 PM

    • Tim
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    Need Help from "old school" professionals

    Next problem on my list to figure out is the whole "drop frame/non-drop frame" issue.

    At one time I thought I knew what this meant, but now I'm not so sure.  Here's the issue I'm having:

    In a SD project (30i NTSC 4:3) I insert a (miniDV)tape into our Panasonic AG-DV2500P and open the capture tool.  Almost immediately I get an error message that says:  Exception:  A drop frame tape was inserted. A non-drop frame tape was expected. Please insert the correct non-drop frame tape.

    Under the Deck Preferences setting I have selected both drop frame and non-drop frame and I get the same error message. 

    Is there a setting somewhere else that I need to change?

    What exactly consitutes a drop frame (miniDV)tape (how would I know)?  

    Any help you can give me would be greatly appreciated.  I know people don't typically use tape anymore but we must make do with what we have.

    Thanks

     

     

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  • Wed, Oct 15 2014 9:05 PM In reply to

    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    Something to remember:

    NTSC video (black-and-white) originally had a frame rate of 30 fps, so the timecode counted at 30 fps. However, NTSC color video (the only kind of NTSC video in use today), has a frame rate of 29.97 fps. This subtle difference between 30 fps and 29.97 fps seems practically negligible and, in many cases, ignoring this discrepancy is fine. But not always. What editors needed, especially in expensive broadcast markets, was timecode that accurately reflected the exact duration of a program on tape.

     

    I do use tapes.

    What I do is:

     

    Insert the tape.

    I think your first tape was non drop frame, avid expects to be like that.

    If I get this error, I insert the tape and I write the name of the tape.

    The system will recognise your new tape as the way it did with the first tape.

    I think this going to be your workaround.

     

    Or try:

    Settings/General

    change 1:00:00:00 for 1;00;00;00.

    Notice the : and ;

    CV

    AVID MEDIA COMPOSER 5.5.3. PC. WINDOWS 7, SP1. 64BIT OPERATING SYSTEM. QUICK TIME VERSION 7.6.9. [view my complete system specs]

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  • Wed, Oct 15 2014 9:13 PM In reply to

    • jef
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    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    Every tape should have a unique tape name/number.

    Avid keeps track of tapes you use, based on this unique Reel Name you give when a tape is put into an empty VTR.  Avid also keeps track of whether a tape was NDF or DF.  So if you are not changeing the the tape names when you load different tapes, Avid will expect the code to match from tape to tape.

    This is one possible explaination of what you are seeing.  Does that help?

    Jef

    Avid DS 11.0.2 R.I.P | MC "Well, it depends ..." 2021 iMac w Big Sur [view my complete system specs]

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  • Wed, Oct 15 2014 9:33 PM In reply to

    • Tim
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    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    Okay, so in what case would I ever have a drop frame tape?  Everything we do is color.  We use Panasonic Pro-sumer DVC7 and DVC20P camcorders and JVC SR-VS30 and SR-DVM70 decks, all of which have probably been purchased in the past 10 years.  Looking quickly through the manauls I do not see anything regarding a setting for drop frame/non-drop frame.

    So if someone put a tape in and left it called "new tape" inside of media composer, then everytime someone left the tape called "new tape" MC would assume it's the same drop frame/non-drop frame tape inserted the first time after the system was installed.  Is there a way to reset what it thinks "new tape" is? 

    I would agree that naming the tape is the proper thing to do- but we're a school and there are numerous unexperienced students that use the system, and inevitably they will all be too lazy to change the name. It will always be called new tape.

    So I tried doing what you asked and changed the name of the tape.  But here's what happened that makes me concerned- all the clips in the bin (only 3 of them) now share the same tape name, even though they came from different tapes.  And sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

     

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  • Wed, Oct 15 2014 11:08 PM In reply to

    • smrpix
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    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    Always change the name of the tape when you put a new one in the deck to be captured.  Each tape needs to be uniquely identified.  If your students mess up and don't do this properly, they may run into exactly the situation that you've encountered.

    If every tape has the same name, how do you know which one to use when you batch digitize to Up rez?  How do you know which one to use to recapture if one of your drives crashes?

    Please teach the students proper procedure.

  • Thu, Oct 16 2014 12:44 AM In reply to

    • Tim
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    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    Okay, so I just tried this again and I'm still having trouble with this one tape.  I changed the name of it but and it would appear that MC is convinced this is a drop frame tape.  So is it my understanding that I need to change the timecode setting in the General settings window to have semicolons, then import the clip, and then change it back to colons?  Will that allow me to capture a drop frame clip into this 30i NTSC project?

     

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  • Thu, Oct 16 2014 1:59 AM In reply to

    • smrpix
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    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    You don't have to change anything.  Capture the tape with its drop-frame timecode -- because that's what it is -- and then edit it into your drop or non-drop timeline.  It will work fine.  It makes absolutely no difference to your workflow.  It's just a different way of counting.

  • Thu, Oct 16 2014 12:16 PM In reply to

    • Pheral
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    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    Tim:
    I changed the name of it but and it would appear that MC is convinced this is a drop frame tape

    To be clear - if you get this error, hit the 'New Tape' button, which will create a new tape and highlight its name field, at which point you assign a name (or number) to it.  Projects can have both drop and non-drop tapes, regardless of what the sequence's is.  Also, it is settings in the camera that determine whether your tape is drop or non-drop, not anything you're doing on the deck or within Media Composer. 

    Just FYI in case you didn't know, the unique tape names process hearkens back to the days when pretty much all video footage was ingested off of tape.  Storage space was precious and expensive.  The way that the offline/online process worked was that you would digitize your footage initially at a low resolution, say 15:1, being careful to give each tape a unique name.  You would edit your sequence, then 'decompose' it, which created new clips representing just the footage contained in the sequence.  You would then tell Avid to batch capture these clips at the online resolution..  It would open the capture tool and then ask for each tape by name to be inserted.  Avid would then digitize just the sections of footage that were actually used in the sequence.  Now you know why unique tape names are so important.

    Not "old school".  Just "old".

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  • Thu, Oct 16 2014 6:57 PM In reply to

    • Tim
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    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    Just for those who are not really sure what is happening here is a picture to help you understand:

    The work around, which I would have though to be more obvious, is to not capture timecode.  Discovered this on my own.

    HP SB-Z400 Workstation, Intel® Xeon® Six-Core Processor W3680 3.33 GHz, 12 MB cache, 1333 MHz memory, 12GB RAM, PNY-1 FX4800 video card, Windows 7 Pro... [view my complete system specs]
  • Thu, Oct 16 2014 7:07 PM In reply to

    • Pheral
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    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    Tim, to the best of my knowledge, there is no way to stop this error other than creating a new tape in the tape selection dialog and giving it a unique name.

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  • Thu, Oct 16 2014 7:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    As far as I know the only way to stop this is giving a new name to the tape.

    CV

    AVID MEDIA COMPOSER 5.5.3. PC. WINDOWS 7, SP1. 64BIT OPERATING SYSTEM. QUICK TIME VERSION 7.6.9. [view my complete system specs]

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  • Thu, Oct 16 2014 7:38 PM In reply to

    Re: Need Help from "old school" professionals

    This sometimes happens if you open the capture tool while the camera is cued up to a point on the tape that has no rolling timecode (i.e. the beginning of the tape).

    What I like to do is this:

    -Put tape in camera BEFORE opening the Capture tool.

    -Start rolling tape, to a part that has rolling timecode.  Pause tape.

    -Open capture tool.  The capture tool should now recognize that you're using a tape with drop-frame timecode (or whichever type of timecode your footage has).  Now name the tape.

    (SYSTEM 1) iMac Late 2012 27" (13,2), Mac OS X 10.15.6, Avid Media Composer 2020.12 w/Symphony, Intel Core i7 3.4 GHz, 32 GB RAM, NVIDIA GeForce GTX... [view my complete system specs]
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